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Byron
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| 06/19/2009 6:25 PM |
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| I have been reading on this forum and on others and there seems to be a common thread among the women that they seem to have a hard time understanding respect towards their husband.
Look at it like this: Just as pornography eats away at a woman's heart leading her to think she is no longer loved, so overeating does to a man's heart leading him to believe he is no longer worth the respect and honor of his wife keeping herself beautiful for him.
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Justaguy
Posts:11
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| 06/23/2009 12:37 AM |
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Gender disclaimer: "The opinions expressed are the views of the writer and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the gender in general..."
Oh, man.
Byron, I can somewhat understand what you're talking about, but I think you're balancing on a fine line between being sorely misunderstood, and grievously insensitive. Yes, we as men often do view our significant other's desire to keep themselves in shape as an indication of how much they "respect and honor" us, but there are many factors to look at here.
A woman's battle with overeating can be an indication of many, many underlying issues, more than one of them being how they understand our view of them to be. You compared it to pornography, but if our wife/significant other sees us continually turn to pornography as a way to satisfy our sexual desires, overeating may be a manifestation of the pain she feels. It may be her way of compensating (and she's probably very aware that it's not a good one).
"For each action there is an equal and opposite reaction..."
Often, what happens between a man and a woman is simply that. Reaction. He reacts to her because of what she said, because of what he did, because of what she did....
It's the underlying tone of Shanti and Jeff's books that change starts with one. We can't expect our spouse to change dramatically, just because we want them to. No one has the right to change anyone. We can, however, inspire a person to change by the change they see in us.
If a woman who struggles with overeating (or any eating disorder, for that matter) sees a change in her significant other in how he displays his affection for her, regardless of her outward appearance, she may be inspired to seek help on how to deal with her problem.
(And I haven't even touched on the spiritual aspect of addictions....)
I'm not trying to come down hard on you for your comparison Byron, I'm just trying to encourage you to look at it from her perspective.
As far as the respect issue, I think it boils down to how we perceive our wife's perception of us. We don't feel we have her respect, if she's undermining, contradicting, or putting down what we're saying or doing. She has every right to give us positive direction or reasurance, but she may find it is better received when it is done lovingly and tenderly....
Anyway, just food for thought.... |
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Byron
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| 06/24/2009 9:58 AM |
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| Ok, that is one man's view of what I wrote. How about what you women? What do you think of what I wrote? |
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Julie Fidler
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| 06/28/2009 7:26 PM |
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Actually, I don't think it's a terrible leap.
Both can become impulsive, even addictive. Both can send the message that the other person's needs and feelings are being devalued. Both pornography and overeating fill an inner void.
Sensitive? Uh, no.
But there just might be some truth to it.
Julie
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Forum Moderator
Project Specialist for Shaunti Feldhahn |
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Byron
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| 06/30/2009 7:10 PM |
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| Sensitivity or insensitivity was not considered. If you women feel free to voice whatever you don't or do like about your husbands, you are going to have to swallow hard and take the same medicine and uderstand that if you expect him to give up his lust of the flesh you also are going to have to do give you your lust of the flesh. Isn't that one of the reasons Shaunti wrote her books in the first place? |
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Justaguy
Posts:11
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| 07/01/2009 12:27 PM |
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Byron, you've probably put your finger on the two issues that most affect couples in this day and age.
I also maybe sense that this issue has some raw edges for you, so I'm trying to proceed lightly. To be perfectly honest, I have an ongoing struggle myself in this area, and it's brought my marriage to its knees more than once.
That being said however, I think you may have overlooked one thing.
In society today, it is getting more and more acceptable for men (and women for that matter) to dabble in pornography. Let's face it, with what's on TV these days and in magazine stands, pushing the boundaries of what's socially acceptable, talking more openly and freely about sex and "soft porn", it sends a message that a certain amount of it is natural and men just "need to escape" now and then.
In sharp contrast, look at how society today views a person, and even more if it's a woman, who is overweight. Modern culture says that it is in no way acceptable for a woman to be even slightly overweight if she hopes to win the approval of her man. This message is getting to women at a much younger age now too, long before their metabolism even starts to slow down. Can you imagine what is going through a woman's mind if she struggled with her view of herself when she was thin, got married when she was still thin, and then once the changes in her body with age or childbearing take place, her husband starts to look lingeringly at other, more beautiful women, or perhaps to suggestive material containing gorgeously perfect female specimens? I think it would be hurtful to say the least.
I'm not saying you don't have a point. Believe me, I'm not saying that at ALL. That's why Shaunti devoted a whole chapter to it in her book For Women Only. My point is simply that instead of demanding that if we're going to give up indulgences, then they better give up their indulgences too, perhaps we can put our time and energy to better use by fixing what may be the root problem, and lovingly support and encourage the other person to a better end.
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Byron
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| 07/01/2009 2:41 PM |
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| Isn't it neat? An anonymous forum to share and discuss what we really think deep down inside? I wasn't meaning to be insensitive or mean, but to put out information so the other sex could understand us men(not all of us) a little better. I wanted to see what kind of response I would get from both men and women. I look at these forums and glean what I can from the women who voice their opinions and ideas. Then I use that information to improve my relationship with my DW. I hope some woman out there looked at what I wrote and was able to better understand her man. I don't use these forums to vent my opinions, I'm telling you like it is. If I feel this way, I am sure many more men also feel the same way but they will never express it. Respect has enough couage to find out what my spouse secretly thinks but will never say. And then respect acts unselfishly and gives my spouse what they want. |
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lizzybeth
Posts:9
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| 07/02/2009 7:20 PM |
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Sometimes, it makes me feel like men only care about how we look and not so much about what is on the inside. While most women WANT to be attractive to men, it is very painful to not measure up...especially when you DO try very hard.
I keep thinking about that passage in FWO about how men "compete" with one another in having an attractive wife. While I can't speak for all women, I personally never make comparisons in the looks dept between my husband and another woman's husband. To me, it is the inner man that matters most. But, then I realized that sometimes I do occasionally compare how other husbands TREAT their wives, and wish that mine would do some of the things another is doing. So maybe I'm not so different from you men. My husband is wonderful and I love him deeply and am very blessed, and he is NEVER mean to me. BUT, he is a workaholic and never spends time with me, and when I see other husbands being very attentive to their wives, it just makes me long for that. To take a walk...sit and watch a movie...share a meal when he is not on the phone or emailing on the blackberry to work. (Maybe that is sinful to feel that way. I know I should just be thankful for all his other wonderful qualities, and I truly am.)
I love your last statement Byron, " Respect has enough courage to find out what my spouse secretly thinks but will never say. And then respect acts unselfishly and gives my spouse what they want." Well said! I have respected my husband enough to lose 45 pounds, buy new clothes, and try to look nicer for him. Who knows? Perhaps one day he will think I am pretty enough to spend a little time with. |
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Byron
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| 07/03/2009 9:20 AM |
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| Wow, lizzybeth, you have a great attitude! The same thing is going on in my marriage but in a different area. Someday I hope to see the fruit of my labor. Jesus said, "So what if you love those who love you, even the heathen do that. But I say to you love those who hate you........." Even in marriage this holds true. I believe the greastest respect we can give our spouses is to be like Jesus to them even though we recieve nothing in return. We will be honored in due time. |
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Shadows
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| 07/04/2009 7:04 AM |
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This really hits home with me right now. As a woman in her 50's, I constantly feel like I don't "measure" up anymore because no matter what I do or try to do, there is absolutely no way to compete with a 20 year old. I'm probably within 10 lbs of what I weighed when we got married but having two children and aging 30 years takes its toll, no matter how hard you try to fight it.
The fact that there is so much more acceptance in society, as Justaguy stated, for "men to be men" makes it even worse. Add to that fact that many women seem to have no respect for themselves in the way they dress and run around showing just about everything they have. I feel like the women my age are at a big disadvantage and there is nothing they can do about it. My husband tries to avoid looking but for crying out loud, it's everywhere - even church!
As far as the weight issue, I do think women it's sometimes hard for women who have young children and are working to eat properly and have time to exercise. Most of these women are just stressed out and it's hard to diet under those circumstances. Not making excuses here but I think it would be very helpful if men pitched in more. On the other hand, the women need to realize that they can't just "let themselves go" now that they are married.
Shadows |
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Byron
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| 07/06/2009 2:02 PM |
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| Be sure to remember what Shaunti's study says about men and their wives loosing weight. If their wives are trying, or doing what they can, it is huge in our eyes. And it gains our respect. My wife is not a perfect "10", but in my eyes she is! Because I pay attention to her. And in return she does what she can and that is all I need to keep my eyes on her instead of elswhere. Sometimes my DW gets upset because we need more $. Sometimes I take that personally. I shouldn't. It's not easy to not take it personally. |
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Tisha
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| 07/08/2009 5:27 PM |
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O.K. I have to say my peace. When I read comments about men and one thing that kept coming up was the fact that they wished their wives would lose weight. That makes me so sad. I am overweight and I beat myself up everyday. I am recently trying to lose weight again but it is soooo hard. You want to be beautiful for your husband but, lets face it, food is a very enjoyable part of life. In a sense I feel like I am losing a wonderful part of life by not enjoying certain things. Also, I have seen women who are overweight but are still very beautiful. Isn't that something? Does woman have to be a size 6 to 8 to be beautiful. You look at ads etc. and there seems to be a common message society is trying to say and that is if you are overweight you are worthless. Very sad. On that note, what about the overweight men? People don't seem to put very much pressure on him to lose weight. There are so many things women have to battle with. For me I was recently diagnosed with a slow thyroid; which is probably why I could not lose wight when I was younger. My husband says I am beautiful, no matter what my size. Too bad more men can't see the beauty that is in virtually every woman and appreciate that woman.
Also, pornography is an awful thing. It diverts a man's attention from his wife. Jesus did say to not lust after other women. That it is better for his eye to be plucked out. If my husband were to look at pornography I would feel like he didn't desire me at all anymore. How would I compete with that. I would feel like a failure. I have had four babies; guess what my body is like. |
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lizzybeth
Posts:9
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| 07/16/2009 5:14 PM |
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I'm just curious...as Byron was quoting from the book that it is the "effort" that counts for you men, is that REALLY true? For some reason I can't quite believe that. I keep remembering an evening once when my husband and I attended something, and I actually HAD made an effort on my appearance. As we were walking in I'll never forget the way he looked at me up and down with this expression that said, "Poor thing. I guess that's the best she can do." He never said anything, and later when I asked him about it he wasn't even aware that he had given me that "look". I had to fight back tears the whole evening, and really wanted to go hide in the car. And it didn't help any that most of the women at the event were really beautiful. (There have been other little times like this, but I'll only mention this one.)
I don't mean to sound super sensitive (though I know I am!), but how does a woman overcome something like that?
And, Byron, I know it is hurtful when your wife ways that you need more money, but if she is like me she is not thinking of it as a reflection on you. Until I read the book it never occured to me that you men would think of it that way. I work too, so when I said anything like that I was thinking of the 2 of us. Now I am very careful what I say to my husband along those lines because I think it may make him feel as bad as when he criticizes my appearance. |
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heather
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| 07/17/2009 8:01 PM |
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When a husband continually looks at younger, thinner, more attractive women or porn, a wife may feel like she doesn't measure up. She feels she can't "win" the admiring look from her man. It can cause her to think that no matter how much weight she loses or how hard she tries to look good, she won't win the competition. There is little incentive to work hard to look good, because it feels like it won't be good enough.
Look at "healing from hurt" in this forum. |
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Jimmy
Posts:54
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| 11/29/2009 4:28 PM |
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| We do care about what is on the inside it's just the physical attraction is what pulls in the guy before they can make the true attribute attraction. |
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JoeMS
Posts:41
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| 12/22/2009 4:00 PM |
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Thanks for the great discussion.
Byron: " ...overeating does to a man's heart leading him to believe he is no longer worth the respect and honor of his wife keeping herself beautiful for him. "
Lizzybeth: ...it is the "effort" [to loose weight] that counts for you men, is that REALLY true?
While it is nice to have an attractive wife, it is more important to a loving husband that she is at an approximately healthy weight. I agree that her effort to take care of herself and try to be attractive does touch the heart of man. I think most loving husbands understand that there can be psychological and biochemical reasons for some weight gain. Does she care enough about herself and her family to try to take good care of herself?
Lizzybeth: "it is very painful to not measure up...especially when you DO try very hard..."
Remember the polls show that men desire respect, supportiveness and encouragement from a wife. Therefore a loving, respectful wife has those advantages over a porn star in attracting a good man.
Also please don't get the impression that a guy is thinking, "how can I embarrass my wife and break her heart? I think I'll stare at women dressed like a ****." I agree with Shaunti when she said somewhere that men are wired to notice an attractive woman. We then need to "take that thought captive" (Paul in one of his Epistles) and look elsewhere.
Byron: "Respect has enough courage to find out what my spouse secretly thinks but will never say. And then respect acts unselfishly..."
What a good point. Isn't that one of the biggest blessings from Shaunti's work. Even though we are somewhat different, we can learn to act in ways that will reach our spouse's heart. |
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